Four Spokane police chief finalists talk community policing, budget woes and drugs at forum Thursday

Four candidates for Spokane’s new police chief came together on Thursday evening in a forum at the Central Library to tell the community what changes they could bring to the city.

The Dalles Police Chief Tom Worthy, Tucson Assistant Police Chief Kevin Hall, Yakima Police Chief Matthew Murray and Memphis Police Col. Kathleen Lanier addressed department spending and policing philosophy as Mayor Lisa Brown looks for a permanent chief. That person will enter Spokane with a looming budget deficit and a fentanyl crisis, both problems that local leaders have differing opinions on how to solve.

The city’s budget this year is balanced, as required by law, but in many cases it is propped up with temporary measures that cannot be used again. The hole in the overall budget is approximately $50 million.

Community members also voiced concern about police shootings and homelessness in surveys provided by the city, said Deputy City Administrator Maggie Yates, who was moderating the forum.

Tom Worthy

Worthy, who has worked in his current role as chief of The Dalles Police Department since 2021 and previously worked for the Oregon State Police for 29 years, said he plans to prioritize community policing, transparency and a philosophy to “do no harm.”

A Pullman native, he’s eager to return to the Inland Northwest. He’s even run Bloomsday, he said. He plans to apply his “brand of policing,” with the resources of a larger police department. Police should prioritize “guardianship” over their communities rather than having a “warrior mentality,” he said in an interview last week.

Worthy gave examples of community policing as stationing officers in higher crime areas so they can get to know the neighborhood better or kicking soccer balls around with kids at the park in the same neighborhood.

“Only by working together … can we make it better. We can aspire to those higher ideals of policing … and do it in a way that embraces the community,” Worthy said.

Worthy addressed concerns about police shootings, saying the only way to keep police shootings down is to better moderate a high-stress situation before a shooting occurs.

“Let’s not go to a situation and make it worse,” he said. “If you have time to think, you better use it.”

Worthy said sometimes shooting is inevitable, but afterwards, it’s important to make sure the information is shared with the community in an effective and transparent way without hindering the officer’s rights of due-process. He acknowledged that while people should have compassion for the officer, officers should also show compassion and transparency to the family of the shooting victim.

“If it’s not hindering an investigation, let’s release that information, release body camera (footage) and let people know this is why we did what we did,” he said. To accomplish that, it’s necessary to check for any de-escalation tactics and alternative responses before shooting someone who police perceive as a threat, he told the crowd. If there is a police shooting under his leadership, he plans to be at every one.

“The ideal number of police shootings is zero. How often can we get it wrong? Never,” Worthy said. “That’s how we approach it.”

When asked about homelessness and opioid use, Worthy said he wants to de-centralize social services in the city so it’s more spread out, making it easier to serve a group of people rather than being overwhelmed serving hundreds. But following services, people experiencing homelessness or substance use disorder should be reunited with family members so they have a better place to live that’s more stable than the streets.

“Twenty times they fall out with their son, but maybe on that 21st time, they get some clarity and can be with their family again,” he said. “It’s not against the law to be homeless. It’s not against the law to be an addict.”

If selected, Worthy would be inheriting a portion of the city’s budget deficit. He said his solution would be long-term planning and controlling what he can within “limited means,” like holding vacant positions in order to save money. As a fiscal conservative, Worthy said he doesn’t “bang on the desk and ask for more police officers,” but he attempts to work with hypothetical situations if he had to complete budget cut requests.

Kevin Hall

Hall, a 32-year employee of the Tucson Police Department, serves as the commander for the Field Services Division but has experience in multiple units of policing. Those include home invasion, homicide, SWAT, gangs, internal affairs and child abuse. If he inherited Spokane’s budget deficit, he said he would also plan on sweeping vacant positions within the department. It’s not ideal, he said, but he has experience with budget cuts.

Last year, Tucson had to cut some police academy classes to resolve a budget shortfall, he told community members after the forum.

“It’s all a balance. Sometimes you don’t buy cars. And you’re going to drive crappy cars,” he said.

Hall has applied for other police chief positions during his time in Arizona. Hall was among three candidates to be Oakland’s police chief in December, but the mayor rejected all of them, according to TV station KTVU.

In 2022, Hall was also among three candidates vying for police chief in Seattle, the Arizona Republic reported.

He wants to relocate to Spokane because he plans to bring accessibility here, he said.

“My business cards have my cellphones on them. I want people to call me,” Hall said. “One of the best things I enjoy about Spokane is the investment in Spokane, what it is and what it can be.”

Hall said in response to recent police shootings that use of force in police departments is a concern when law enforcement can have an impact if they aren’t immediately threatened in the moment. Sometimes, there isn’t a “whole lot” police can do if someone has a gun, but they can de-escalate thoroughly if someone is armed with a knife or a bat, he said.

“I’m not a big fan of trying to solve every police problem with training,” he added. “That’s low-hanging fruit.”

Training officers that everyone is a threat isn’t an effective tactic, he said. Strong policy tells officers what they “can do,” Hall said, but good leadership tells officers what they “should do.”

To address opioids, Hall said police cannot tell the community they don’t know what to do. Substance abuse is a “trifecta of system failures,” he said, and police can’t solve it on their own, but law enforcement is part of the solution.

“We have to offer a pathway to treatment and housing, a pathway to address behavioral health,” Hall said. “We can’t just ignore it and arrest people and have them cycle in and out of the jail.”

Matthew Murray

Matthew Murray has led the Yakima Police Department since 2019, and he announced his retirement last month. He previously worked at the Denver Police Department since 1991.

He, too, has dealt with budget cuts.

“If that is what the boss wants, we will find a way, but we have to do that in the least impactful way possible,” he said, adding that the police can’t stop services even if their services are impacted. “The citizens have to decide what they’re willing to pay for.”

Murray also said he doesn’t like the term “community policing” because it’s a term that just “checks a box,” he said.

So instead, for three years, he spent every morning walking a neighborhood in Yakima to get to know the residents.

“When I look at Spokane … I see that in my view, a lot of challenges the city faces are identical, but on a bigger scale,” he said. He calls himself a unique police chief, one where people might not always be pleased with his decisions.

“We try to suppress crime where we should disrupt crime,” he told the crowd. “That looks a little different than what people are used to.”

While in Denver, the sheriff’s department investigated Murray and former Denver Police Chief Robert White in 2016, the Yakima Herald-Republic reported in 2019. The investigation was based on allegations that the two violated protocol in handling accusations of sexual assault against a police officer and an open records request. The investigation wrapped in 2018 with no criminal charges against Murray, though the sheriff’s department recommended internal discipline for going against department policy on sharing records.

“His failure to comply with policy was a negative reflection on the Department and on Chief White himself,” the report stated.

The sheriff’s department recommended a four-day suspension without pay for the policy breach, though the police department didn’t discipline Murray in its review of the investigation. Murray told community members after the forum he was informed last year his police union was planning on taking a vote of no-confidence towards Murray, but ultimately decided against it.

“Being a police chief means you’ll make decisions that are unpopular,” he said.

In order to reduce police shootings, Murray said he has implemented strategies within his department he took from a trip to Scotland. Investigators have to decide if the shooting was reasonable, practical, necessary and appropriate, he said.

In Yakima, overdoses also are up in numbers, he said. But he added police aren’t the answer to that problem.

“Our biggest tool is the investigation and enforcement of that crime,” Murray said. He said he compares people police interact with to customers, like at a retail store.

“The guy in the dumpster is a customer. We need to treat people in a way where they feel like a customer. Red carpet,” he said. “We have the ability to treat people in a way that lends the path to change.”

Kathleen Lanier

Kathleen Lanier, the only woman among the candidates, brings 34 years of experience from Memphis.

She told the crowd she plans to pack up what she learned there and bring it to Spokane in a suitcase to share. But some of that includes change, she said.

“Change is not going to be easy, and everyone is not going to like it,” she added.

Her plans for Spokane include interacting with the community, she said. She also wants to engage young people more in decision-making.

“The community is the eyes and ears. I would be receptive to what any and all of you have to say,” Lanier said. “New eyes, new ears, and have a footprint and fingerprint in something good that can happen here. Not to say it’s not good, but it can be better.”

Lanier told community members after the forum she was part of the investigation into the death of Tyre Nichols, a Black man who was captured on video footage being beaten by multiple police officers in Memphis in 2023. She told Spokane residents it opened “the throttle” and inspired her to do things differently.

“Trust with the public is important,” she told the crowd during the forum. For police shootings, Lanier said she often finds there are training issues. A wider array of training is more effective, which includes de-escalation and “shoot or don’t shoot” scenarios, she said.

“Yes you could’ve shot him, but did you have to?” she said.

Lanier also added that while she can critique officers, it also helps when citizens can see why law enforcement feels the need to shoot and kill a suspect.

“No one wants to take someone’s life – it’s not something we come to work to do. But being open-minded, there are times when it will happen,” she said. “The investigation (must) be thorough, transparent and we hold the officer accountable and make sure the community has some level of information.”

Lanier said she knows the struggle with opioids well. In 2019, she lost her brother to an overdose, which is why she “never looks down” on a person in crisis.

“My brother was from the best of families. Those drugs have brought many good women and men down,” she said.

Memphis has an overdose response team, Lanier said. She described a team similar to Spokane’s Behavioral Response Unit, which is dispatched to overdoses. It’s proven effective, she told the crowd, but more can be done by tracking the source of the drugs.

Lanier was unavailable to talk about the city’s budget shortfall due to time constraints Thursday.

Reporter Elena Perry contributed to this story.