Teacher squares off against nonprofit leader in Spokane school board race

Wed., Oct. 14, 2015

The race for Spokane School Board position 4 is between Patricia Kienholz and Paul Schneider. (Jonathan Brunt / The Spokesman-Review)

By Eli Francovich elif@spokesman.com (509) 459-5508

Patricia Kienholz, 46

Notable experience: President of Citizens Law and Safety Research Center. Kienholz serves on boards, including as trustee for Northwest Museum of Arts and Culture.

Education: Graduated from Ferris High School in 1987. Earned degrees in social sciences and communication and the study of women and men in society from the University of Southern California.

Paul Schneider, 40

Notable experience: He’s taught in public schools for 18 years, including one year at Shadle Park High School and the last 11 years at University High School.

Education: Graduated from Gonzaga Preparatory School in 1993. Earned a bachelor’s from Western Washington University and a master’s in curriculum and instruction from the University of Washington.

On the issues: Candidates for Spokane School Board, position 4

What is the most pressing issue facing Spokane Public Schools?

Kienholz: Providing an excellent education for Spokane Public Schools students despite the fact that Washington state is not fully funding basic education. We still need about $3.5 billion from the state to relieve levy funding covering the cost of basic ed. If the state doesn’t want us to use levies to fund basic education, which they are recommending, then we need to figure out how to cover the $3.5 billion. Meanwhile, with or without a balanced budget, we still have to provide every public school child the opportunity for an excellent education, which is part of the constitutional requirement addressing K-12 public education in the state.

Schneider: There are several. Contract negotiations are going to be front and center in a matter of months and as a board member I promise to bring stakeholders together to begin to bridge the trust divide. Beyond this, I think we need to focus on the 15 percent of kids who are not graduating on time and ensure they have the support necessary to be successful. I think it’s important, however, to note that I don’t prioritize kids. ALL of our kids deserve our best ALL of time. My job as a board member is to juggle the needs of all of our kids and their families and ensure they have what they need to be successful.

Are there any books currently in libraries within the district or on class reading lists that you feel are not appropriate to be used in schools?

Kienholz: No. However, books can be removed from the district if they violate the Supreme Court’s precedents for freedom of speech. (Volokh, Eugene. The First Amendment and the Government as K-12 Educator. 10/31/11.)

Schneider: No. Ideas should not scare us nor should be they be censored in our schools. If we can’t explore controversial ideas in our classrooms in the hands of responsible educational professionals than where will it happen? Censorship is a dangerous and anti-democratic impulse that schools should not embrace. That said, the district has in place a policy of responsible access to materials. Their adoption and evaluation of materials recognizes that there are developmental limits that should guide our reading choices. I do support this and trust our professionals to ensure our kids are accessing age-appropriate materials that support their learning.

If you could change one thing about the district what would it be and why?

Kienholz: If I could change one thing about the district, it would be to stop the reliance on levies for funding basic education. With the adoption of clear, concise, state-wide guidelines defining both basic education and the state’s financial obligation to fund basic education, and increased supplemental spending for special needs, arts integration, the sciences, technology, engineering, math, English as a second language, and programs to assist struggling students, we could better address areas where we are falling short. And, I want to add that my daughter received an excellent education from Spokane Public Schools, graduation last year with honors in high school and with honors and an AA through the district-wide Running Start program. I’m a single mom, and it can be done.

Schneider: I would like to change our schedules. Our school day and year-long calendar are based on a 19th century model. We need to create more flexible opportunities for our kids and their families that meet our 21st century needs.

Do you support the sex education curriculum currently taught in the district? Why or why not?

Kienholz: Yes. Having a sex and gender degree from USC, and working in the third sector in areas involving exploitation of children, I think it’s important to appropriately teach children about anatomy, genetics, and culture. I also think it’s sad the things we’re charged with teaching children now days. The Internet and entertainment media expose our children to a lot of things that are violating to parental rights, and rob children of their innocence. I don’t think we’re doing a great job protecting children, with outrageously high poverty rates, child exploitation, and a society that profits from violence. But I’m pleased with all the organizations working hard to solve these problems.

Schneider: To call the program sex education is wrong. The district’s Human Growth and Development curriculum is a comprehensive, age-appropriate look at how we grow and change physically and emotionally. I support comprehensive and well-rounded approaches to human development and sexuality that allow students and teachers to explore in a responsible and safe environment, the many social, physical and emotional changes our students will face in their lives.

Do you think Spokane Public Schools should continue to offer high school football, given both the cost and the danger of concussions?

Kienholz: Good question. I spent years working in the NFL, have nephews who played college football, and friends in the NFL Hall of Fame. That balanced with a having a chemistry background and a reasonable knowledge of neuroscience and traumatic brain injury, it definitely concerns me quite a bit. But, the same can be said for soccer, which has, I believe, more head injuries than football, obviously because of the use of helmets.

There’s a risk issue on the horizon for public schools where football and soccer are concerned. High school students are at greater risk than college or professional players because of brain development and access to expensive equipment and special helmets. The conversation is ongoing and it’s difficult to quantify outcomes related to aggressive sports, but I’d like to hear more feedback from the community. If youth football was handled by an outside organization it probably wouldn’t be too difficult of a transition as long as scholarships were available for students who need them, but still it doesn’t get rid of the neurological or physical cost to kids, by freeing up the schools from liability.

Schneider: Yes. High School football programs (and indeed all extracurricular programs) are integral to successful schools. Kids need to have a host of programs that allow them to connect to their community and find meaningful relationships beyond the classroom. Our coaches and advisors provide incredible learning opportunities and life-lessons that extend the learning in our classrooms and they provide such valuable mentoring to our students that to lose them would be to lose much of the heart and soul of our schools. The coaches, administrators, parents and students who participate in our sports and extracurricular programs work tirelessly to keep our kids safe. I know first hand that providing a safe environment for competitive sports is their highest priority. We need to be vigilant, provide appropriate training, equipment and support but we need to continue to fund our extracurricular opportunities for kids.

Given the current budget shortfall of $5.6 million what programs would you take money from to make up the difference?

Kienholz: The district has had budget shortfalls in the past, and it’s important to keep in mind a budget is a proposed plan for revenues and expenditures, adjusted as actuals come in throughout the year. No funds can be removed from basic education; adjustments have to be taken from other areas, not necessarily programs. I wouldn’t take any funds from programming involving special needs or school safety.

The district is doing a good job addressing the issue so far by looking into the cost of lunches and Express. The cost of food has risen considerably over the past three years. University of Washington reporter Deborah Bach, cites a study finding that, “Washington families with two adults, a preschooler and a school-aged child saw the cost of meeting their most basic requirements jump as much as 72 percent between 2001 and 2014, depending on where they live. But median wages increased just 21 percent during that time.” (Bach, Deborah. “Cost of meeting basic needs rising faster than wages in Washington State.” UW Today. 11/20/14. University of Washington. Online publication. 10/07/15.)

Schneider: To call what happened in past couple of months a shortfall is questionable. The district was given millions from the state and has more in reserve to meet the needs of our programs and our valued professionals. That said, my priorities will always be to finance and fund programs that DIRECTLY impact kids and cut in areas that do not. A couple of examples would be to evaluate current administrative overhead costs and perhaps the cost associated with the over-testing of our kids as areas where we might find savings.

Do you think the Washington Supreme Court made the right choice when it came to charter schools? Why or why not?

Kienholz: No. There are a couple arguments I’ve heard to justify the Supreme Court finding, however, the finding is 41-pages long, so the arguments are more involved than the two I’ve been presented with, and I am not a constitutional law expert. As I understand it so far (many experts have not provided feedback about the ruling), reasonable disagreement with the Supreme Court is over their referencing an early 20th century law (1909) which ultimately will restrict funding for many other public school connected institutions in the state. I’m waiting just like everyone else to see what comes next.

The argument I’ve heard public feedback about and which is part of the ruling, is that because Charter School boards of directors are appointed rather than elected, Charter Schools don’t fit the definition of common schools, and are therefore somehow lacking in accountability. As a trustee serving on an appointed board for an educational state agency, the chain of accountability still exists, although it takes a somewhat different form. There are a few different types of appointed state boards and that’s a broader discussion than this one. However, appointed boards are accountable to the governor, the attorney general, the Office of Financial Management, the Open Public Meetings Act, members can be prosecuted for breaking the law, and ultimately “complete control,” as discussed in the ruling, rests within the structure of our government (laws and constitution). Whether a board member is appointed or elected doesn’t change the inherent character of the board member. The difference is whether or not the public gets to have an apparent say in the appointment of the member. Because the governor is an elected official it seems reasonable to assume that complete control is still with the voters even with an appointment.

The ruling (51 Wash. At Bryan) cited by the Supreme Court establishes that “voters, through their chosen agents, to select qualified teachers, with powers to discharge them if they are incompetent, “ is interesting to me because of the lingering questions about what actually defines “complete control,” and whether or not being elected actually gives voters “complete control.” I expect the courts will address the question of “complete control” in the future because this recent Supreme Court ruling in Washington state is significant to other cases.

Another argument I’ve heard, that Charter Schools take money away from other public schools, is counter to my belief that the money should follow the student. However, the finding addresses that by interpreting Bryan to mean that Charter Schools can’t legally access the funds intended for common schools because they are not common schools. This argument seems a little circular to me and I’d expect the experts to address that at some point also.

Spokane Public Schools spends from our levies about $2,200 per Charter School student for approximately 300 Spokane Public Schools students (about 80-90 percent of our charter schools students are otherwise Spokane Public Schools students). Compare that to the $12,000.00+ per public school student spent for Spokane Public Schools students, is almost a $3 million delta in our favor. If Spokane Public Schools had to pay for all those students, we’d be looking at about an $8.5 million shortfall instead of a $5.6 million shortfall. What the pundits are really trying to do is create pressure for the legislature to fund basic education, but it shouldn’t be at the expense of Charter School students.

Schneider: I think the Supreme Court made the correct decision. Charter schools take money from the public and place those dollars into a less accountable private system. While Spokane Schools did a very good job getting a in front of the voter initiative I think full public accountability is necessary. That said, let me be VERY clear that I support school choice. I understand that traditional programs do not always serve the needs of all kids and we need to provide as many creative opportunities as possible in our district to support all learners and their families.

If you’re elected, how will you ease upcoming negotiations with the Spokane Education Association?

Kienholz: This is an easy question for me to answer because my opponent, who’s under contract with the Washington Education Association, will be conflicted out of all discussions related to collective bargaining. That means he won’t be able to do anything to help Spokane Public Schools with their relationship with the Spokane Education Association (whose parent is the Washington Education Association). So, by default, I’m the better candidate when it comes to labor.

Teacher conflicts of interest on boards are conveniently obscured from voters who don’t usually discover that there is a conflict until after a teacher is elected to serve, if ever. People easily buy-in to the idea that a teacher has experience and concern for education, which is true, without understanding the specifics of board governance and the RCW’s that mandate “Ethics in Public Service” (Chapter 42.52 RCW). So, I think it’s important to be transparent and accountable, even when those terms are over-used when talking about financial oversight.

Collective bargaining makes up 80-85 percent of the budget, and it’s very important all five board members are available to do the work required to address matters with the Spokane Education Association. Because I serve on the board of trustees of an education state agency (Northwest Museum of Arts and Culture), I understand how important it is to have full board participation in matters involving the public trust. If a member shows up with a conflict, and it recuses the member from doing a significant portion of work, it places that work in the laps of the other members, which not only isn’t fair, but increases risk.

I understand the value of labor unions, having married into a family of union organizers, and when it comes to board business I try to be gracious and disarming, while being firm about what is in the best interests of children. As long as the Spokane Education Association and I value children, and preserving the public trust, I think we’ll get along.

Schneider: This will be my first duty as a board member. I would like to identify (with our superintendent and current board members) a third party who could help guide discussions around trust and collaborative decision making. This lack of trust is the greatest obstacle to forward progress. I would add that as a new board member I would encourage both current board members, district administration, union leadership and general membership to redouble their efforts to bargain in good faith, find middle ground and commit to repairing any damage done.

Should evolution be taught in public schools?

Kienholz: Yes.

Schneider: Yes. Evolution is settled science and belongs in our science classrooms.

Who was your favorite teacher? When and why?

Kienholz: My first grade teacher was my favorite. She looked liked Wonder Woman.

Schneider: Three stick out. Doug Banks in 8th grade inspired me to teach. Tony Maussione in my junior year of high school ensured I would teach history. And Jack Delahanty pushed me to be a better student and person than I ever thought possible. There are so many others too that have guided and supported me. I wish I could name them all!

Favorite recess game in elementary school?

Kienholz: Tag.

Schneider: European Handball with Mr. Banks.

Fondest high school memory?

Kienholz: Realizing I could use the Gonzaga Law Library for debate class, and then going there to study; DECA in Mr. Backlund’s class; Ferris High School Graduation.

Schneider: Theater with Jack (my drama teacher) and monthly lunch with John Traynor (my principal). These two men, aside from my own father were the greatest mentors I could have asked for.

There isn’t an incumbent in the race for Spokane Public Schools position 4. But if you ask candidate Patricia Kienholz, she’s the underdog.

“I figured that I’m slotted to lose from the beginning,” she said. “I think it’s pretty typical that someone like him gets that kind of backing.”

Kienholz is referring to University High School teacher Paul Schneider, who has endorsements from the Spokane Education Association and Spokane City Council President Ben Stuckart. He’s raised more than $17,000. Kienholz has raised about $3,500.

Schneider said he’s raised that much money because he’s taking his campaign seriously.

“I wanted to run a smart campaign no matter what,” Schneider said. “If I had gone unopposed I certainly wouldn’t have raised that kind of cash.”

Schneider portrays himself as a practical, in-the-trenches choice with nearly 20 years of teaching experience informing his positions.

“I know what policy feels like,” he said.

Kienholz, on the other hand, is policy driven. She said her experience on a number of boards gives her a deep understanding of the processes running behind the educational scene. She is the president of Citizens Law and Safety Research Center and is a trustee for the Northwest Museum of Arts and Culture and is on the Affordable Housing and Real Estate Committee for the city of Spokane. She believes she can use that experience to help children succeed.

“I’m running because I think our children are key to building the middle class in our country,” she said.

Kienholz questions Schneider’s campaign tactics and ability to effectively serve on the board.

Her campaign manager, Derek Corbin, filed a complaint with the Public Disclosure Commission against Schneider on Aug. 6. The complaint alleges that Schneider used public school property to film three campaign videos featuring students.

Schneider doesn’t deny that the videos were made. However, he said he didn’t ask the students to make them, and they didn’t use school equipment, other than filming on school property.

“Right now, as far as I’m concerned this is a baseless complaint,” Schneider said. “I think she was coached by somebody to try and bury me in complaints.”

PDC officials said they still are investigating.

Additionally, Kienholz believes that it’s a conflict of interest for a teacher to serve on a school board. Schneider is a member of the Central Valley Education Association as well as the Washington Education Association.

“He will be conflicted out of all contract negotiations,” she said.

Schneider said that because he’s not a member of the Spokane union he’s not directly affected by contract negotiations in the Spokane district, the region’s largest. If there were a strike, either in Spokane or Central Valley, he’d still perform his board duties, he said.

Mark Anderson, associate superintendent at Spokane Public Schools, said it is legal for teachers to serve on school boards and that normal confidentiality rules would apply to Schneider.

Schneider started campaigning early in anticipation of running against long-term board member Rocky Treppiedi. However, Treppiedi switched from the seat he currently holds, position 4, to position 3 when he filed for re-election.

Jenny Rose, president of the Spokane Education Association, thinks Treppiedi was dodging Schneider.

“Rocky knew he couldn’t beat Paul,” Rose said. “There is no way Rocky could beat Paul.”

Treppiedi said when he went to file there were no candidates running for position 3; Jerrall Haynes subsequently filed to run for that position.

“What person in their right mind would sign up for two other opponents when there is a vacant position?” Treppiedi said.

Haynes also is endorsed by the Spokane Education Association. Treppiedi endorsed Kienholz, as did Spokane County Sheriff Ozzie Knezovich.

“Mr. Schneider was recruited and endorsed by the WEA and the SEA. His positions are union positions in certain ways,” Treppiedi said. “Hers are not. Hers are child-focused.”

Both Schneider and Kienholz are concerned with students falling through the educational cracks. Although Schneider opposes the creation of charter schools, he said he supports other options for choosing schools, especially alternative programs.

“I don’t pretend that public schools are the answer to every single problem our community faces,” he said. But, “I don’t know that we can fix our public schools by taking money out of our public schools.” Charter schools receive public funds.

Kienholz is primarily concerned with bullying, online safety and the students who are falling behind in traditional public schools. She supports charter schools and would support a voucher system where private schools could receive government money.

“I’m basically for education any way we can get it,” she said. “Education is the difference, not class.”

She’s also concerned about how the district handles bullying. To Kienholz, both the perpetrator and the victim should be treated as children. She’s against expulsion in nearly every case.

“I see the target and the perpetrator as the same because they are both children.”

As for strikes and collective bargaining, she believes in the values, if not the tactics.

“I do understand why they felt they needed to walk out,” she said in reference to the spring teacher walkout.

Schneider supported the teachers in this fall’s near-strike but stresses that strikes should be a last resort because of how disruptive they are. One of his top priorities would be smoothing relations between teachers and the school board.

“I would like to be a community bridge builder,” he said.

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